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 What's your opinion on late start graffiti careers

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SayweezyAOM Posted - 11/05/2009 : 08:38:03 AM
I've been seeing lately more and more people starting their graffiti careers in their mid to late 20's, what's your guys feelings/opinions on this growing, what seems like, trend? I personally think it's a little ridiculous, no disrespect. But I just can't understand why some people would willingly choose to become a career criminal at such a "mature" age. I mean by 23,24,25 you should have some understanding of what's "right" and what's "wrong". It just doesn't make sense to me. I started writing seriously when I wasn oh about 15/16, before I could be charged as an adult. I've learned from some of the best writers in the city to better my skills, to become invisible when neccessary. So I can't see how someone in their mid to late 20's would want to start doing this? Can the old dawgs learn new tricks?

Just a little disclaimer, if you're in your 20's,30's,40's but have been bombing since your teens, that's what's up, that's called longevity, I'm not against that. It's the people who choose to bomb in their 20's/30's that I question.
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SEEN-ABC Posted - 11/26/2009 : 08:30:08 AM
yo happy thansgiving to all....

piece seenabc......
W1DGET_THE_M1DGET Posted - 11/11/2009 : 10:11:30 PM
one more reply....

maybe the people who start late were never really around graffiti but found it appealing not to say they like wanna do illegal things all of a sudden but were amazed and captivated by what we do. anybody think about that?


there's a lot of hard heads and easy going writers out there, if you have a bad aura you attract bad people but if you exude positive vibes people will find you and want to follow you.

all in all writers with good spirits are the ones that will always be remembered, the ones who werent afraid to do what they wanted to do and knew why they were doing it, double hockey stick some kids don't even know why the double hockey stick they do graff.

sometimes i sit back and think of all the writers who passed away and wonder...what's it all for.

for me it's not about the fame, it's the will of my abilities. the way i'm gonna be remembered is thru my peers, half of these old schoolers i don't know i only hear stories and it enlightens me to no end and inspires me to say this is for all these guys who passed away doing what we do...

i won't ever hate on anyone who wants to know and show me their capabilities towards graff.
Sy Posted - 11/10/2009 : 8:40:23 PM
GOD I MIS THE OLD DAYS OF BEING A WRITER....IT WAS SO MILITANT SO IN YOUR FACE SO meet the Focker's THE SYSTEM...IT WAS REGANOMICS AND VIETNAM DOWN TO THE GREEN ARMY JACKETS WE ROCKED ALL ROLLED INTO ONE IT WAS SAYING "I'M MAD AS double hockey stick AND I AINT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE"...BOMBERS NEVER GET THE SAME ACCOLADES AS THE ARTISTS THAT PAINT "BEAUTIFUL BURNERS" DO..I HAVE TO BE HONEST I LOVE TO SEE THE COLORFUL PIECES BEING PUT UP BUT SHOW ME THE JUICY DRIPY TAGS OR STREET SMACKERS AND I SAY WHOA!...TAGS COMMUNICATE SO MUCH AND IF YOU LISTEN TO THE STREETS IT WILL SPEAK VOLUMES IT WILL TELL YOU WHO'S ON TOP AND WHO'S AT WAR ...IT WILL TELL YOU WHAT NEIGHBORHOOD YOUR IN IT WILL TELL YOU WHO DIED AND WHO LIVES..I WILL CONTINUE TO TRY AND PASS DOWN THE EARLY DAYS OF CHITOWN GRAFF SO THAT THE HISTORY KEEPS GOING AND MY ADVICE TO ANYBODY BEGINING GRAFF LATE IN LIFE IS TO DO YOU HOMEWORK AND STREET CRED GOES ALONG WAY SO IF WERE BORN TO BE A SO CALLED ARTIST AND GRAFF GIVES YOU THAT FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION BEFORE MOVING ON TO THE HIGHT CRUST MAINSTREAM ART GALLERIES ETC. REMEMBER THIS THE STREETS FORGIVE BUT NEVER FORGET...
riddlebtb Posted - 11/10/2009 : 3:38:42 PM
There's nothing wrong with getting into graffiti art at a later age, as long as you feel that it can benefit you and that you can benefit the culture, too. However, there will be some credibility issues as far as street credit goes, due to having to prove yourself on the scene as a relative newcomer, despite your age.

In tow, I see little to gain an older person who gets into bombing, which is much different than graffiti pieceing, especially if it's not legal. I hate writers that say bombing isn't a crime. Dude, if you're marking up somebody else's property without permission -believe me; it "is" a crime! The graffiti culture had its hey-day for bombing, where a lot of illegal stuff was done to rebel against society and protest against corrupt factions in the city. But that time is over.

Now, it seems more about its original theme of getting up and gaining fame. But even the most prolific bombers have very short fame. In fact, "most" writers under the age of 25, don't even recall the old street and line kings. They don't know Konami, Hale, Coke, Epoch, or even Syrak. This is because the fame gained from bombing is very short lived. In a weird twist, the fame gained from piecing is rather long lived, because piecing with great skill automatically demands a kind of unconditional respect whether your old school, or new school. This noted, I "don't" recommend bombing if you want to gain artistic fame, or a recognition that will last long.

As for permission walls; they are good to showcase a writer's skills, because they don't have to rush their work and get a chance to really give a wall their all, as far as skill is concerned. So I would recommend "permission" walls for older writers that want "uninterupted" recognition for their artistic abilites.

The odd thing about graffiti as one of the 4 elements of Hip-Hop is that it is spawned from an illegal practise. This gives the art form a kind of immortal bad reputation when it comes to professional art, which is why I rarely mix graffiti art with commercial art - and why I no longer use graffiti art for community projects. I personally don't feel graffiti art should be taught to kids, either. (That's like taking a crocadile to a freakin' petting zoo!)Unlike Rap, D-Jaying, and Break-Dancing, graffit art (if done illegally) will get you in trouble-so you'd better think before you act.

In the end, graffiti is just that - graffiti: so people interested in getting into the culture should know the good side and bad side of it, before jumping into it. Nevertheless, their is an advantage that starting older does have - and that advantage is the fact that most older people have a better understanding of the graffiti phenomenon in general, where as youngsters often act on impulse alone.

To me, I think graffiti today is just the remnant of a very cool culture that only exists in such a worldwide arena, because of its more accepted "legal/permisison" oriented status. It has its own corporate sponsors, magazines, caps/nibs, and even several brands of spray paint made specifically for it. ...If that doesn't embody pure commercialism, I don't know what does!?!

Commercialism killed the real culture a long time ago - and it sent it into extintion! In short, the graffiti culture you see today is "not" the real culture of yester-years -no matter where you go. You see; a lot of modern day writers continue to commercialize it for personal fame and money, making the proverbial "Pitbull" aspects of it into a tamed Chihauha. But hey ...that's just my oppinion. Peace.
GATZ Posted - 11/10/2009 : 03:09:34 AM
quote:
Originally posted by SayweezyAOM

Little side note here, when I said I think it's sad that someone would show up to an art gallery all "Northfaced out" with the backpack deal, I didn't mean to say it's wrong, it's just not me. But I have been guilty of toting a black book and decos around with me back in the day. When you're younger you're a lot more anxious, and eager to meet people, unfortunatley there seem to be a lot of politics in graffiti as well. And sometimes it seems for every one cool writer there are five haters that won't talk to you unless you're kinging the city.

So here's another question: If someone chose to begin writing in the mid 20's or so, would you (and this goes out to the older heads here) show the man the same kind of tolerance of a 14/15 year old?

For example, I've met some younger cats, and painted with them and their styles are nothing short of booty, no disrespect but they know they're not ready to do crazy burners or what not. So I'd have more patience with them, to guide them and help them progress from bubble fils, to straight letters, to some crazy sh*t that hasn't even been invented yet. I haven't met an older cat trying to write, so I haven't painted with anyone like that. But you see now more and more especially with the internet a lot of self promoting. And well, ehh?

Is there less patience for an more 'mature' writer who may be at the same skill level as a 14/15 year old? Since realistically speaking the time frame you have to get out as much may be shorter than a teenager. In the sense of being physically able to. Let's face it, whatever your cultural or ethnic background may be, we all live in Amerika, Land of the free, home of the whopper.

What do you guys think?



hmmmmmmm being that im still a youngin i would feel pretty awkward paintin with an older cat thats on the same level as me (this the part of me taht thinks all the older cats should already be good and what not talkin) but yea i feel that they should better piecing or bombing skillz than me they should be more experienced ect jus cuz theyre the older ones. having that said i think i would have less patience for this said person
GATZ Posted - 11/10/2009 : 03:02:26 AM
^^^^^^^^ kind of off topic sorry
GATZ Posted - 11/09/2009 : 10:42:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by FLASH ABC

they guy that did the obama sticker is now being sued by the associated press for not asking to use one of there imgaes. this from a company that doesnt really hire photographers or reporters. they just grab off the internet


http://personalmoneystore.com/moneyblog/2009/03/11/ap-sues-obama-artist-hope/



i say if u dont want your shyt 2 be stolen u should copywright it or not even put it on the damn internet
SayweezyAOM Posted - 11/09/2009 : 5:43:22 PM
There you go.
FLASH ABC Posted - 11/09/2009 : 1:49:42 PM
they guy that did the obama sticker is now being sued by the associated press for not asking to use one of there imgaes. this from a company that doesnt really hire photographers or reporters. they just grab off the internet


http://personalmoneystore.com/moneyblog/2009/03/11/ap-sues-obama-artist-hope/
SayweezyAOM Posted - 11/09/2009 : 12:59:47 PM
Little side note here, when I said I think it's sad that someone would show up to an art gallery all "Northfaced out" with the backpack deal, I didn't mean to say it's wrong, it's just not me. But I have been guilty of toting a black book and decos around with me back in the day. When you're younger you're a lot more anxious, and eager to meet people, unfortunatley there seem to be a lot of politics in graffiti as well. And sometimes it seems for every one cool writer there are five haters that won't talk to you unless you're kinging the city.

So here's another question: If someone chose to begin writing in the mid 20's or so, would you (and this goes out to the older heads here) show the man the same kind of tolerance of a 14/15 year old?

For example, I've met some younger cats, and painted with them and their styles are nothing short of booty, no disrespect but they know they're not ready to do crazy burners or what not. So I'd have more patience with them, to guide them and help them progress from bubble fils, to straight letters, to some crazy sh*t that hasn't even been invented yet. I haven't met an older cat trying to write, so I haven't painted with anyone like that. But you see now more and more especially with the internet a lot of self promoting. And well, ehh?

Is there less patience for an more 'mature' writer who may be at the same skill level as a 14/15 year old? Since realistically speaking the time frame you have to get out as much may be shorter than a teenager. In the sense of being physically able to. Let's face it, whatever your cultural or ethnic background may be, we all live in Amerika, Land of the free, home of the whopper.

What do you guys think?
SayweezyAOM Posted - 11/09/2009 : 12:30:35 PM
Hahaha 'depends school'. Goner, you're right what I am saying is graffiti is bad, leaglly speaking, and yes graffiti in the sense of bombing, call me old fashioned but that's where it's at. No disrespct to p-walls, and what not. Don't get me wrong, I respect those who practice those methods, and if you wanna call that graffiti, that's fine with me brotha, but that's another topic for another day. Sorry for getting off track there, so let's say you get caught writing on a train, bus, what have you, even if all you wrote was "double hockey sticko", well you might as well be writing Loony, or Fact, because something as harmless as "double hockey sticko" is still gonna get you in trouble with the law, no?

Now to say it's sad that older heads don't focus on finding a career or so behind or influenced by graffiti, hmmmm? I really don't know if I agree with that homie. I mean I feel you, and what you mean. My opinion on it though would be this, some people get into graffiti real hardcore, the adrenaline they get when bombing is literally a drug they are addicted too, so to keep that high you gotta stay incognito, ya fell me? If anything I think it's sad when people show up to an art gallery all "Northfaced out" with a backpack and your 'nickname' on the straps. From what I was taught you want to remain anonymous, and not advertise yourself so some jealous cats can point you out in a line up. This website and forum is about as public as I'll get, I've met a handful of the people on here once or twice so much love to you guys, but other people on here I'll probably never meet? Not to say I wouldn't want to or wouldn't get along with the cats on here, I mean something like this topic alone shows how a lot of us may have the same opinions or philosphies on this and probably a lot of other subjects, and if not that we at least possess the ability to listen to rational thought.

Again got off track, sorry, so if someone would like to pursue a career in graphic design, advertisments, or some other related field, that's cool, but I'm sure those people have an idea that graffiti isn't gonna be that serious to them, more of like a hobby, and/or stepping stone for something else. And that's fine, everyone is different. Look at the Obey guy, I don't know if he got paid, but he did that Obama "Hope" poster that was so popular during the election. So yeah, basically to go back to the point, I don't know if I personally would call it sad that a person doesn't choose a career inspired by graffiti, I mean some brothas just like to cause damage my man. But I get your comments, and that's cool.

That's the beauty of this ugly duckling though, graffiti isn't a straight line, there are quite a few paths one my choose to follow, or even create. Excuse the novel.
REEM Posted - 11/09/2009 : 07:20:22 AM
I WOULD LOVE THIS TO BE THE TOPIC AT SOME TOWN HALL MEETING. IMAGINE THAT. OLD SCHOOL, MIDDLE SCHOOL AND NEW SCHOOL CLASHING WITH WORDS. THIS TOPIC CAN GO ON FOREVER AND I LOVE IT. DROP SOME THOUGHTS PEOPLE. JUMP IN THE POOL, THE WATER IS FINE. IN MY OPINION, DREWMONE IS RIGHT. BEFORE 1990 IS CONSIDERED OLD SCHOOL. IN ABOUT 20 YEARS THERE WILL BE DEPENDS SCHOOL, OLD SCHOOL, MIDDLE SCHOOL AND NEW SCHOOL. PEACE....MAD CREW
gonerface Posted - 11/09/2009 : 06:47:28 AM
I agree with certain stuff WEEZY said, but to say..
"At 23 24 25, you learn wrong from right"..

What your pretty much saying is graffiti is bad? I mean, I can undderstand how saying "bombing" might b bad, and I wouldn't call it bad, your just taking a chance on your criminal record.

I think its kinda sad, that older cats spend their entire time bombing or piecing and not focus on anything else...or maybe start a carreer using you design skills..I know many writers who sure, you have street cred. And all the shorty look up to you, but they havnt eccomplished anything with there trade or skill, I got mad respect for writers that go on and start carrers in design or adversising or graphic design..

Its like they say..too much of anything is bad..

Idk..its early,I just smoked a blunt..and felt like ranting for a little..
DREMONE Posted - 11/09/2009 : 04:24:59 AM
O.K.
SEEN-ABC Posted - 11/08/2009 : 6:34:43 PM
yo all talking about how we all got start it can be 10,15,20 we are doing are thing and that's to get up !!! like i know just to put out there from the 75's,85's is old school 89's99's middlschool 2000 is the present of graf for all of us baby......

yo do your thing ..... piece seenabc


quote:
Originally posted by DREMONE

Anything b4 1990(oldschool),1990-1997(middleschool),1998-present(newschool)
Just my opinion.
I from dee middle skool!

IF YOU GET STARTED AT AN OLD AGE, THEN U JUST A OLD CRUSTY NEWSCHOOLER!!!

It's all about the era u rocked in.

Sy Posted - 11/08/2009 : 12:25:12 PM
quote:
Originally posted by S1

Let's talk...evolution of graff.......










HOW BOUT GRAFF EVOLUTION IN THE CHI...I'LL BUST OUT THE SUBWAY SPY PIC FROM 1976.
Sy Posted - 11/08/2009 : 12:21:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SayweezyAOM

I can feel these arguements, and I guess being younger I was quick to jump 'the old school' era of grafito. I totally agree now with what Reem had to say, old school is a term earned through years of putting in work. So you, my brothas, who have steadily kept up and more so helped out with the progression of graffiti have earned the title of "Old Skool", see what I did there? With the "k" in school. Just kidding. But really 'old school' is a term that means you've been rocking for a decade plus! That's awesome. So to call a new jack 'old school' because of their age just isn't fitting. So if someone decides to begin a graffiti career in their 20's by their 30's/40's is when they'd be considered old school.

This topic has been very insightful, and I really do appreciate all of your guys responses/reactions, opinions, and personal history on the topic. Thank you, I'm glad you guys have been attracted to the topic. I've been a big fan of this website for a while so the last thing I'd want to do is bore you with some moronic topic. Peace brothas, and stay up!







EXACTLY....GOOD THREAD PROPS!
REEM Posted - 11/08/2009 : 05:59:17 AM
LOL. WORD^^. CANT GO SHPPING FOR MONTANA CANS WITH A RASCAL OR BOMBING. PEACE...MAD CREW

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